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etimodnar

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And Then There Was Silence


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etimodnar

Look Who's Irrational Now + Protecting Marriage to Protect Children

From Hollywood to the academy, nonbelievers are convinced that a decline in traditional religious belief would lead to a smarter, more scientifically literate and even more civilized populace.
The reality is that the New Atheist campaign, by discouraging religion, won't create a new group of intelligent, skeptical, enlightened beings. Far from it: It might actually encourage new levels of mass superstition. And that's not a conclusion to take on faith -- it's what the empirical data tell us.

This here is an interesting article from the Wall Street Journal. I post this not to start a heated debate, because I know that this doesn't hold true for some... or even the majority (as the data in the article says)! But I post for opinions. Atheist or not, what are your beliefs on the supernatural?

The philosopher and Nobel laureate Bertrand Russell, certainly no friend of conventional sexual morality, was only repeating the obvious a few decades earlier when he concluded that "it is through children alone that sexual relations become important to society, and worthy to be taken cognizance of by a legal institution."

I reject homophobia and believe in the equal dignity of gay and lesbian love. Because I also believe with all my heart in the right of the child to the mother and father who made her, I believe that we as a society should seek to maintain and to strengthen the only human institution -- marriage -- that is specifically intended to safeguard that right and make it real for our children.
This here is also a very interesting article on marriage, homosexual marriage and children from the LA Times. Again, opinions?


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Oh, where to start...Ok, first off, I also am not looking for debate and not trying to offend, but both these articles got on my nerves.

In the first article...none of those things is irrational, and it makes NO SENSE that Christians who claim to rely on the Bible would not believe in them. Do dreams fortell the future? Yes, if you believe the Bible. Did Atlantis exist? Why Not? Can places be haunted? Well, the Bible talks about demon possession. Who's to say "ghosts" aren't really demons? Is it possible to communicate with the dead? It's forbidden in the Bible, so my assumption would be that it is possible. Does Bigfoot exist? Probably. How can someone be so arrogant to assume we have discovered all the animals living in our world?

To me, this says Obama's denomination believes the Bible more than Palin's. Also, Maher's beliefs about medicine aren't irrational either. We keep pouring chemicals into our body, it's going to have an effect. Calling aspirin "lethal" may have been a bit extreme, but don't assume it's completely harmless. Everyone I know who takes aspirin or similar pills on a regular basis has built up a dependency on them and has to take more now. They are drugs. It makes perfect sense not to want to fill your body with that stuff. No one would be calling him irrational if he were talking about marijuana, a similarly harmless drug.

I'll be short on the marriage article. If a couple gets married and can't have kids, what's the point? Also, if a couple gets married, has kids, and then dies in an accident and the kids get adopted, what's the point? It seemed like the emphasis on being raised by your biological parents was WAY TOO HIGH in this article. That is NOT the point of marriage. And I really don't see why it matters.

...I am afraid this came out badly. I am very, very sorry if that's the case and I offended anyone. Just want to provide a voice from the opposite end of the spectrum.

I was very surprised, but kinda amused at the passionate response. :) no offense on this end :D

I think there's more than the black and white that the article portrays and the main point I got out of it was: some people who don't believe in things because they can't see them, believe in things that can't be seen.

I believe in various paranormal things, but I also believe that most of them can't be trusted and are not reliable sources. God CAN speak through dreams, ghosts do exist, but we need to see these things as the Bible has revealed. That means I don't believe in "good" spirits. I believe pretty much all of them are evil pretending to be good, unless it's God himself - but even that needs to be weighed against the Bible.

I personally think bigfoot is a hoax and I don't know what to think about Atlantis, so I don't.


I think the article made a good point for marriage as a socially constructed institution as opposed to a religiously constructed institution. Marriage exists as a social institution because the church and state were joined at the hip until a few hundred years ago. Now that they're separate, I endorse the separation of the marital institution from the state as well, instead preferring a "civil union". Those who want "marriage" can do so through a religious/church group.

This article however, gave me a fresh perspective on the role of marriage as a social, state institution and the benefits of such.

Oh, good! :)

I can sort of see that point. I just dislike seeing my beliefs listed as "irrational", and it sort of set me off. It's also connected to the fact that I grew up in a conservative protestant church like the ones they mention who don't believe in these things...and I am sick of hearing from the people I grew up with that anything "supernatural" in the Bible doesn't really exist, while they cling to the moral bits as a weapon against people they disagree with. I don't like that I was attacked for not following the Bible when they don't even believe in it.

I agree with your view on marriage. If it's a religious issue at all, it should not be a state one. Everyone can have the same legal partnership, and let the church sort out the religious aspect.

aside from link, this is not directed at the above poster, i am just too lazy to make a double post.

"Calling aspirin "lethal" may have been a bit extreme, but don't assume it's completely harmless."
o rly?

On a more serious note, About the first article, and as an agnostic leaning towards atheistic tendencies, Bill Maher is a dickhead - he's as bad as the other side in terms of intolerance and misinformation (imho) - but the article is very leading in terms of what it presents and how it presents it. I find the insinuation that religion lends more common sense than the alternative to be fatuous and somewhat typical of the "ha ha, we've got god, what the heck do you have" attitude of some religious extremish (not extremists but tending that way) rantings I've stumbled across. It seems to be a normal reaction to become annoyed at somebody arguing you are more irrational than their defined norms, so call me normal.

The second article... Let god sort 'em out (sorry, couldn't help myself). Gay and Lesbian marriages are an interesting conundrum - and I reject the "You're hitched, have some effing babies" tone that it seems to promote. I have a lesbian godmother - i call her my fairy godmother (cue the peanut gallery rolling their eyes and saying "no wonder he turned out that way") who is happily entrenched in a domestic partnership that has lasted longer than most marriages, with IVF twins who are wonderful and completely. bloody. normal. As with all articles tying marriage to having-some-effing-babies, it insinuates that just 'cause they have four boobs or balls between them, they're incapable of raising a child (maybe biologically incapable of producing them but sperm banks are wonderful places full of opportunity) to the standard of basic trailer trash or other people who shouldn't have been given a parenting license.

Granted, most of what I've said is knee-jerk, flu-related reaction to these things, but I'm pretty sick of the smugness. Also, any group with "Child" or "Family" in it as far as I'm concerned is partisanly religious right-wing until proven otherwise. Conclusively. May work for some people, just makes me cranky.

Re: aside from link, this is not directed at the above poster, i am just too lazy to make a double p

I had never heard of that. Thank you!

Also, you whole post was awesome.

I really wish I knew more wonderful Christians such as you! That is all. ^_^

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